It's a really high price and not many people are willing to pay that, so I think Lehman is the more obvious,

It's short-term pain for long-term gain.

We're at an inflection point where the fixed-income markets aren't going to give you the tailwinds you've had in the past. The fixed-income markets have been on an incredible bull run but over a three- to five-year horizon what you've seen is going to reverse itself.

A 13 percent premium may irk some fairly large shareholders, who may say that's not enough.

A 13 percent premium may irk some fairly large shareholders, who may say that's not enough,

As value investors, we start with the fact that they are historically cheap and at all-time lows relative to the market, ... Secondly, we think there's an opportunity in the next year or two for the pricing cycle to improve. Thirdly, as the financial services deregulation bill makes its way through Congress, we think there's opportunity for some bank takeovers of insurance companies.