We were very impressed by Sam both as a person and as a businessman.

If you're going to focus on Joe as a person, let's look at Sam as a person. Sam had a [criminal] past, but he's still a human being.

It doesn't surprise me. That's the type of person Sam is.

Sometimes I definitely feel a sense of accomplishment but it’s never after accomplishing something.

I had recruited him to be my deputy. Sam had impressed me as an extraordinarily gifted lawyer. He was careful and rigorous. He didn't come across as an open and obvious conservative activist, like me, for example.

155Sometimes I definitely feel a sense of accomplishment but it’s never after accomplishing something.